Fulton County New York Sheriff Giardino Interview on Executive Orders, Enforcement and More

Interview by Daniel Del Valle

The BLUE Magazine spoke with Sheriff Richard C. Giardino to hear his insights on the pandemic, executive orders, public health concerns and enforcement from his personal and professional points of view.

 The BLUE Magazine: How long have you served as Sheriff?

Sheriff Giardino: I was elected in 2015 and then re-elected in 2019 for my second term.

The first question is, why now? Why would you at this point, because let's go back to when coronavirus started when they closed down the economy. A lot of people at that time felt that law enforcement should not be enforcing these types of executive orders, and because law enforcement rolled over and let things spiral out of control, we've reached a point where the government is telling us how many people we could have in our home. When this first began, were you in agreement to close things down?

No. You have to understand. The executive orders about the number of people, face masks, business hours and separating tables are governed by the State Liquor Authority and the Health Department. They had the administrative duty to set rules and regulations with penalties. So if you are a bar or restaurant or store and do not comply, they can fine you, suspend your license, or revoke your license. So that's all constitutional and set up to balance the Constitution and the public safety elements. So that's why a governor can do those and be enforced by the administrative, right.

So that's why there is no need to speak up. Once, the Governor issued an executive order a couple of weeks ago, splitting and capping the number of people at your home at 10, making you wear masks in your own home that to me was an overreach and unconstitutional. So, I felt that with the number of people who have anxiety and mental health issues as a result of COVID and the number of people who've been bashing the leaders and bashing police for the last six months that it was unconstitutional and not a good use of resources and would further create problems with the community and law enforcement if we went to your doors.

I live in a rural county, in the Adirondacks, with fifty-five thousand people. I only have three deputies on a shift, so car accidents, domestic violence, larcenies, and everything else takes precedence over going and checking how many people have at Thanksgiving. I don't have the manpower and the practical reason. And second, if you don't let me in, by the time I get a search warrant, Thanksgiving will be over, and people will be on their way. And I don't even know if you can legally get a search warrant to enter someone's house on this executive order because it's not a crime. So that's the reason I spoke up.

So, sheriff, the initial closing down of the economy was therefore justified in your view? In other words, you're separating that from someone being ordered how many people to have inside their homes?

Correct. For a hundred years, the law has been clear, the case law from the United States Supreme Court, that when there's an epidemic or pandemic or medical crisis, then a governor or the president can quarantine individuals in their own house. If they refuse to be quarantined, he can get a court order to put them into a hospital or a facility until the quarantine is over. So that's already been established. So he can issue substantial executive orders. An executive order is not a law, but it can add consequences, and they can set rules for fines and suspensions based on your conduct.

Got it. In your opinion, how likely is a conviction for having too many people in your home on Thanksgiving?

I don't even see making an arrest on this. I don't think you could even arrest someone for having more than 10 people in your house. I don't think you can probably even get a search warrant because you have to say, I believe I have probable cause to believe a crime was committed or an offense. These are not crimes or offenses. These are violations of the executive law. Business is a different thing. They can tell you got close at 10. Now, I can tell you that I don't its smart closing at 10 because I think you are doing three things. You can leave a gym open twenty-four hours a day. You can stagger the number of people, and the time they can be there. That allows for more people to get out of the house, get some exercise, and clear their minds. Two, it provides for employees to be employed and get paid, and three, it allows for taxes to be paid to the government. Those are very valid reasons to keep a gym open. The reasons to close restaurants and bars it's understandable but it's devastating the economy. I'm not in a position that I can advocate for businesses other than to give them my sympathies.

The other thing is COVID is very serious, but we don't do things. We know that 99% of the people who get COVID recover within one to three weeks. We know that the high-risk people, the elderly, the older you are, the more risk to you. We know the older you are that you're more likely to catch it. We know if you have ailments like heart disease, diabetes, you're overweight, or have an autoimmune disease, you're more at risk. So, anybody who loses a life, your family hurts, their friends hurt, and it's sad. For anyone who gets sick, it can be anxiety-producing, pretty nerve-wracking.

The only thing restrictions have caused is a spike in mental health issues, people attempting suicide or debating suicide, a spike in anxiety, depression, and other mental illnesses. So what happens, what I'm afraid of is this. If you have COVID, 99%, you're going to be cured, and you'll be moving on after three weeks. If you have a mental health issue that was exacerbated by this, it will continue for decades or until the end of your life because mental health stays with you. Are you having sleepless nights? Are you drinking more? Are you getting agitated? Are you having a lot of anxiety? So we are creating a lot more mental health problems that will be long term because of some of these orders.

Has there been a spike in crime or domestic violence in your county?

There's been a little spike in disorderly conduct, domestic violence, but across the country, particularly in big cities, there's been a larger spike. Some of it is coronavirus. Mostly are judicial or administrative changes such as bail reform or discovery reform. What's ironic is city leaders, the councils, the governor 'Oh don't enforce this law! Don't enforce that… don't do this, don't do that! And now crime is out of control in the major cities. Homicides are up 50% in most big cities. There's a total disregard of the rules. We had cities where the riots were going on. There were cities where the mayors and the council told the police to stand down. Let them take over the police precinct. Let them burn buildings, let them damage property.

What do you say to that chief today who is enforcing this executive order and not only enforcing it on Thanksgiving but maybe even looking for probable cause, such as a mom buying three turkeys and having two shopping carts full in a supermarket and telling the officers take note because this family might be having a large gathering? What do you say to that chief who has that mindset today?

That chief’s got to make his own decision. Because of my background as a lawyer, and district attorney, and judge, I come from a unique background that I think the system of constitutional law and I taught constitutional law for 30 years, I taught in law school and college. I'm not telling anyone else to doubt my position, but most police have adopted the position they don't have the manpower or the resources or the priorities. So I'm not telling another chief or sheriff what to do. I'm telling people in my community that I trust you as adults to make the decisions. Everybody knows the risk by now. If grandma's sick, don't bring her to your house. If somebody got diabetes or other comorbidities, maybe don't invite them or don't have people come to their house. I'm not. What I'm saying is that it's unconstitutional. What I'm saying is, use common sense, don't invite more people than you need to, and don't invite people if you think you have high-risk people in the room, which is a lot different.

What do you say to the resident on Thanksgiving Day who has 15 people in their home and an officer knocks on their door. What would you advise them to do since you wore many hats in the judicial system?

I'm not going to tell them what to do. That's an individual choice. We can't kick in your door. We can't get a warrant. I would tell them it's their discretion.

What degree of accountability do you believe law enforcement has on what's going on today? I mean, you mentioned people are violating the law with police departments who were backing down and just pretty much allowing lawlessness.

They are being told to back down by the civilian leadership. So it's not the police department's fault. What most people have been doing with COVID, most agencies in the country have been educating the public, saying you've got to wear a mask, here's a mask, you know you can ask to spread out a little folks. It's too close. They haven't been arresting people. They have been recommending and giving you advice on what to do.

What would you say to the families today who unfortunately lost a family member and friends throughout the world because of COVID? In other words, there's going to be families who have lost relatives and are looking at you, sheriff, and saying, "Sheriff Giordano, How would you not want to enforce this executive order? Look at us. We've lost family members, and there's going to be more people dying because of the lack of enforcement by you." What would you respond to them?

I would say I'm very sorry for the loss of your loved one, but I know the anxiety that comes along with that. So I would tell people that I'm not cold-hearted. I'm making it strictly legal. This is a legal decision based on the Constitution. I would tell them to continue to share small groups, continue to protect yourselves and the rest of your families, and remember that we have to protect the most vulnerable. Most people who get it, it's one to three weeks of inconvenience, and they will bounce out of it, and they will be fine.

Are you afraid of any pushback that maybe you could be charged with not enforcing the executive law? Are you concerned that the attorney general, at some point, can go after you for not enforcing an executive order?

I think that the only one that can go after you is the governor. The governor can overrule the sheriff if he does not do his job. I will be doing my job because I took an oath to the Constitution. So, in my opinion, I'm doing my job by taking an oath to the Constitution. So I don't feel any guilt or anything about, you know, so like can the governor remove me for malfeasance. But I argue that the Jim Crow laws allowed for segregation. I'm sure they felt that they are unconstitutional. And I didn't want to enforce them. Would you tell me, go ahead and enforce them? Or would you say that he's doing what's right. You know, I think it's unconstitutional, and it's impractical to try to enforce it, so I feel two ways. Most would go with the impracticality, which is ridiculous. But I see those as a constitutional issue.

So you're not afraid that you can be charged with conduct unbecoming.

I'm not afraid of anything, but I think if the governor tried to remove me, he'd be making a big mistake.

Has Governor Cuomo contacted you at all?

He's mentioned other sheriffs and me; he's called us arrogant. He said we're dictators. He said we were reckless and irresponsible. And what he's doing is setting us up to point the blame at us if there is a spike after Thanksgiving. But we already know it's going to be a spike because Dr. Fauci said there is going to be a national spike. We know what more people in a confined area, inside with the warmth, are at a greater risk of spreading it. We know that. So I just have faith in the people of my county, to exercise good judgment, to follow the rules and I think they’re adults and can make their decision. I don't have to order them to do so. We have a 1.3 rate as of today, which is pretty low. I don't want to jinx this. But I expect we're going to rise. We're not going to increase as high as everybody else because we've been doing what we are supposed to do.

There are a lot of officers today who are contemplating suicide. Blue Magazine is a big advocate to combat Blue Suicide. What's your perspective on this crisis we face?

The biggest threat to law enforcement officers is suicide and mental health issues. And nothing helps when everyone is condemning the police and saying that the police officer wakes up in the morning wanting to shoot someone.

What's your message to an officer right now who is contemplating suicide? What would you tell him if you had his or her ear?

Get help, talk to your peers. Talk to your supervisors. It's more important that you get help; people understand—your friends care about you. When you commit suicide, a lot of people get hurt that you don't even anticipate. Nothing is so bad that you can't get through with help from your friends and family.

Sheriff, do you have a wife and kids?

Well, no, I have a single life. I have three dogs!

What is your strongest quality you have as a person?

The ability to take my job seriously, but not take myself too seriously.

What is the weakest trait you have?

I make decisions based on facts, and I sometimes come across as maybe a little bit uncaring or not feeling necessarily because I don't make my legal decisions out of emotion. However, I'm very emotional and such, probably because I'm Italian, and we Italians have huge family Thanksgiving, Easter, and Christmas holidays. I also think that some people think that I'm not compassionate. I'm very compassionate. My father was a pediatrician for 50 years, and my mother was a Sunday school teacher and his secretary. And they raised me and my brothers and sister with compassion and understanding. My dad didn't care what color somebody was or what religion or what their politics were. He treated everybody and everybody's kid and treated them like they were his own. So I got my compassion from both my mother and my father.

For all of us that have never really known about Fulton County, what stands out in your department that you would like the whole nation to know?

I want the nation to know that Fulton County is a beautiful place to live in the foothills of the Adirondacks. That people care about their neighbors. We got the same problems as everybody else, you know, with mental health problems, with domestics, with issues. But I think that we have a community that when a neighbor needs help, everybody comes to help. I think that's a very strong marker of our community.

It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for speaking out. I have nothing but respect for you, sir.

Thank you for interviewing me. Thank you for what you do. Thank you. God bless you.